Modern Drummer 2005 Readers' Poll Awards

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April 7th, 2005, 05:00 AM
no_bells

To me, the title of All-around drummer fits Vinnie to a T.

I agree with Pocketplayer in that one has to define what all-around is. If you want to be a real hard ass about it and say that a drummer has to be able to play "all" styles authentically which includes all styles and periods of what Steve Smith refers to as American music, all styles of the various "Latin" musics, not to mention drumset adaptations of African rhythms, South Indian, North Indian etc. , then yeah, there is'nt a drummer on the planet that can cover that many styles at the highest level of authenticity. But if we're talking about playing all styles in general with some level of authenticity then there are only a few guys that can do that.

The only guy I can think of that comes pretty close to performing and recording the wide variety of "American music" (all styles of rock, pop, country, metal, jazz, blues, fusion, etc) is Vinnie. I think the reason why others bring up his recorded work is because it's documented proof that he has played the styles of American music with some degree of authenticity. He plays them well enough to be asked to do recordings of them. To me that pretty much fits the title of all-around drummer. Check out the recordings, his career is documented and it speaks for itself.

Paraflam-I have to disagree with you on who you say is "all-around". You say that Vinnie does'nt speak the language of be bop, yet some of the guys you mention as being able to don't either. Brian Blade is mostly influenced by Elvin, Billy Higgins and early Jack, I don't hear any Max or Kenny Clarke and I have heard probably everything he's ever recorded. Clarence Penn, an incredible musician and a huge favorite of mine, is influenced mostly by hard-bop guys as well as Dennis Chambers. He has'nt done any recordings playing the styles of blues, country, rock, metal, or even folkloric afo-cuban music. Neither has Blade, Igoe, and maybe Hass.
April 7th, 2005, 05:21 AM
Suspiria

I agree that the poll would be more effective if categories were defined in a better way. Then again, I also think we take this poll a little too serious. (As has been mentioned many times before.)

I am simply of the opinion that whatever you put in front of Vinnie, he will play it, and probably knock you off your socks while he's at it. I think he deserves the title.
April 7th, 2005, 08:01 AM
Henry II

Quote:

Originally posted by Klemme:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Henry II:
[For me, Billy Cobham is THE All Around drummer for the ages. No one is more versatile than Billy. JMHO. And legend has it that he's just as good a sight reader as Vinnie.

I Respect your oppinion Henry, but i must disagree. I have a recording with a Guitarist called Dean Brown, and billy's doing two tracks out of 14. Rest of the cats are: Michael Bland, JuJu House, etc. I gotta say that those tunes Cobham plays on are pretty unsettled groovewise. Especially in a slow going strong backbeated tune, were you clearly notice an infrigment on his Bassdrum, it's very insecure.

But on the other tune, his improvisations is sick. He's a clearly great Jazz/Fusion drummer, i don't know if you can call him an all around drummer.

lemme find that Album, think i left it at my father some time ago.<hr /></blockquote>Klemme, I'm not familiar with the recording you're referring to, but with a body of work as extensive and diverse as Billy Cobham's, I don't think it's fair to judge him on a single recording. There isn't a musical style or setting that Cobham hasn't excelled at. He's a monster funk, fusion, rock, bop, big band, latin and Broadway show drummer (I wonder if he played barefooted in the pit), with as much (or more) chops as anyone who ever played.

Who has a more diverse body of work that Cobham? Vinnie? Maybe, maybe not. But I'll tell you what, Vinnie doesn't swing like Billy Cobham, he's not as funky as Cobham and he doesn't have the explosive power and energy Cobham has. Again, JMHO.

[ April 07, 2005 05:20 AM: Message edited by: Henry II ]
April 7th, 2005, 01:55 PM
got_a_matchgrip

Quote:

Vinnie doesn't swing like Billy Cobham, he's not as funky as Cobham and he doesn't have the explosive power and energy Cobham has. Again, JMHO

No off, but I disagree w this overall...except for maybe the funky part. [img]wink.gif[/img]

Billy doesn't really "swing" either, at least not in the purist ethnic authenticity sense of the meaning, as do Elvin, Baron, Tain, Deej, Ersk, Hamilton, or whomever, although he can def handle the gig/environment... He's another of the more contemporary feel fusion-jazz guys, also heavily influenced by western backbeat music, as is Weckl & Gadd. Altho Gadd has always had his own groove happening [img]smile.gif[/img] , & can handle many diverse styles. Weck is similar to Gadd in many ways in this respect...

& "explosive power and energy"?! VC can take em all anyday [except maybe Virgil [img]wink.gif[/img] - but it wouldn't exactly be like Virg would "leave him in the dust," either!]...& Billy, altho a great, VERY important, AWA legendary drummer [so is VC ;c)], is not capable of half the extreme rhythmic dynamic as VC. NO way. Again, JMO 0h, here we go again on the kids slide! Weeee] [img]tongue.gif[/img] Ho-hum, a "little time to kill"...
;c)

[ April 08, 2005 02:18 AM: Message edited by: got_a_matchgrip? ]
April 7th, 2005, 02:04 PM
McKenzie

I appreciate Billy he truly was a Pioneer but he does not swing well at all to me either and I would take Tony W. in a funk, fusion, Cont. jazz, swing setting over Billy any day. And I will take Vinnie in most setting's over Billy also.

Dig
April 8th, 2005, 04:04 PM
Suspiria

I am sure that Fuse is very much aware of Cobham's achievements and your opinions just differ. I don't think a difference in generation between the two is the explaining factor here.
April 8th, 2005, 04:23 PM
got_a_matchgrip

Yeah, man...susp "gets me"... ;c)

Billy is indeed great AWA a pioneer...& 1 of my fave early influences [after hearing some other rock guys naturally speak of him as a MAJOR influence, such as Neil & others]...the stuff he did was classic, fantastic, & also a very important [Miles-]stone in the evolution of modern drumming, NO BOUT A-DOUBT IT. Hall-Of-Famer.

It's just my HO that VC is just a notch above on the unique-animal evolu-rhythmic scale, that's all. JMO.

But you can also rest assured that in addition to VC's other obvious main influences [Tony, A Mouzon, Gadd, Buddy, etc], Boomer was indeed one of them [as he is for most others of us AW]. And he paved the way for the "Vinnie's" of today [even though there's only one Vinnie, likewise Cob ;cp].

Chambers is the funkiest & groove-nasta-tastic transcendant-descendant Cob hybrid I can think of...[in my best "johnny cochran" ;cp]...

[ April 08, 2005 01:40 PM: Message edited by: got_a_matchgrip? ]
April 9th, 2005, 03:21 AM
Henry II

Quote:

Originally posted by got_a_matchgrip?:
<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Vinnie doesn't swing like Billy Cobham, he's not as funky as Cobham and he doesn't have the explosive power and energy Cobham has. Again, JMHO

No off, but I disagree w this overall...except for maybe the funky part. [img]wink.gif[/img]

Billy doesn't really "swing" either, at least not in the purist ethnic authenticity sense of the meaning, as do Elvin, Baron, Tain, Deej, Ersk, Hamilton, or whomever . . .

& "explosive power and energy"?! VC can take em all anyday [except maybe Virgil [img]wink.gif[/img] - but it wouldn't exactly be like Virg would "leave him in the dust," either!]...& Billy, altho a great, VERY important, AWA legendary drummer [so is VC ;c)], is not capable of half the extreme rhythmic dynamic as VC. NO way. Again, JMO 0h, here we go again on the kids slide! Weeee] [img]tongue.gif[/img] Ho-hum, a "little time to kill"...
;c)

[ April 08, 2005 02:18 AM: Message edited by: got_a_matchgrip? ]<hr /></blockquote>O . . M . . .G! [img]eek.gif[/img] Well, I don't know what to say about that other than Cohbam must be too much before your time for you to really know what he's done. JMHObservation.
September 11th, 2005, 10:42 PM
SailorCallie

Quote:

Originally posted by Flarobstix:
Just because someone is on a ton of albums in a wide variety of styles doesn't mean they are truly all around.
Shawn Pelton is on 5 times the amount of recordings that Vinnie is on. Many of them are the same artists. Everything from fusion to jazz and tons of pop. But he's the furthest thing from all around. The amount of recordings is irrelevent. We're talking styles here. Who can really play EVERYTHING? authentically. That's what all around is. Most of the great aren't all around. A handful. Paraflam mentioned some great ones. Jeff Watts is extremely all around, in my opinion.

Then how come he's never won or been nominated?
September 12th, 2005, 07:07 PM
got_a_matchgrip

Since it was dredged up out of the dust, just add water, & resurrected, let me say that I love BC's playing, as do most contemporary drummers. He is one of THE major heavyweight pioneers & land/bench-marks or influences in contempo drumming of most any style[s], AWA his said influence on VC [by VC himself in intrvws]. I just don't dig his soloing AMA i usd to, compared to say Vince or Weckl's. But i also love his fuso-fonk playing AW...almost AMA Chambers'. [img]wink.gif[/img] I'm a huge BC, awa Tony & Lenny fan.

As i read this back, i realize it looks like rehash...leftover [5 month] microwaved spam anyone?

[ September 12, 2005 04:09 PM: Message edited by: got_a_match_grip? ]

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